When jungling its an advantage to get radiance ealry imo ... Helps to farm faster me thinks .. anyways, to each his own opinion and items so end this debate on which items are better now pls.

We are looking forward to a cracking semi final tmrw and an even more interesting final on sunday 

I am not saying butter is bad on terror blade am i? i am  sayin that rushing radiance will help u get ur travel, skadi, butter etc faster.

images deal 55% damage and take 300% correct me if i'm wrong.

thats about 15 damage in addition to the base damage. thats nothing compared to the 35 aoe damage given by the radiance.

i doubt that any1 can farm faster with a butter than with a radiance. 500 more for a relic is not that difficult to farm.

the images dont need damage. wat they need is hp so butter/radiance will not really matter against aoe damage.

oh btw images dont get the 30 IAS or the +30 damage

hey... are we getting off topic a bit... I'm suggesting that we have a DotA stratergy section open (if possiable) So the the elite gamers can say their opinions on item builds and stuff. Now that we have a "Dota-Critic" on board, it might be really good for dota players to talk about items builds and stuff.

P:S :- YAY! 500th post! Time on site 5 days, 6 hours and 27 minutes

hmmm i donno man but i prefer radiance than the mathcraft still u need to c chu's TB with 800 cs lol.. he went rad first ... but anyways i like the dagon build :p

I prefer rad in 20 mins..after that no use no matter what..waste..if u need damage go butter plus it gives evation..Rad efffective when u have a good hp hero to tank your team so that u can stand n damage..Otherwise no use

I dont think TOXIC was playin easy..... They had to use there brains with us compared to other games they have with other teams.... Im sure n all wil agree by seein the replay and yes at the last push sven was abit Hi! anyway The game was tense as far as i saw by seein the replay....

Team WDF needs to improve and all ma team members know tat but im happy of the performance... WE did good and We wil B top someday..... Tats for sure 

______________uNwaNteD-Skillz a.k.a Vp___________________

I dont think TOXIC was playin easy..... They had to use there brains with us compared to other games they have with other teams.... Im sure n all wil agree by seein the replay and yes at the last push sven was abit Hi! anyway The game was tense as far as i saw by seein the replay....

Team WDF needs to improve and all ma team members know tat but im happy of the performance... WE did good and We wil B on top someday..... Tats for sure 

______________uNwaNteD-Skillz a.k.a Vp___________________

Hey... We put up a good fight. Anyways very well played WDF! Congratulations TOX1C. Btw i prefer butter to radiance on TB. And yes, dagon build rockxsz!!!

Skillz we need team practise...Hope to see u online like those days in all prac sessions

TB item build i go for either S n Y or m'jolnar 1st  depending on the opposition. i would like to knw y dagon for TB i dot understand dat build....................................btw JaDeD=MonTaGe

i would like to knw y dagon for TB i dot understand dat build....................................btw JaDeD=MonTaGe

Low swap + dagon = instant kill after farming neutrals and ganking an opposing farmer. All the best for tonight btw ...

Red_Aces:

oh btw images dont get the 30 IAS or the +30 damage

Sorry at work so I can't always pin point and address every bit of detail. Yes, you're right the +30 raw damage does not benefit the images but the +30 from AGI does convert to damage and I'm pretty sure the 30 IAS does too. Will need to double check that during the weekend. Thanks for the correction.

thats about 15 damage in addition to the base damage. thats nothing compared to the 35 aoe damage given by the radiance.

Radiance:
FYI the 35 AoE damage doesn't stack either. Now here's the good news..

-Theoretically, assuming 2 illusions are next you you, the TB gets...
[(AoE Burn/sec*) + (Hero +Dmg) = Total ] (35) + (60) = 95 unmitigated damage ONLY in a 400 radius!

*It would be amazing IF everyone would just come dance around you in melee range wondering what those sparklies are? Fairies? I hope so -_-

Butterfly:

-Theoretically, assuming 2 illusions are next you you, the TB gets...
[(30 AGI=30 DMG: 30*55%= 16.5 x 2)  + (Hero +Dmg + AGI:Dmg) = Total ] (33) + (30 + 30) = 93* unmitigated damage even at MAX range!

*I'm not even considering the base 30% Increased attack speed bonus, Armor & the IAS received from the AGI multiplier.. lol

the images dont need damage. wat they need is hp so butter/radiance will not really matter against aoe damage.

1.What in the world makes you say images don't need damage when 55%x2 = 110% Damage = +1 hero!!!
TB isn't meant to tank all 5 heroes, he needs to kill fast before they get close and disable him. Please stop referring to games that take over 1-2 hours to finish where you end up filling all 6 slots with Lvl 4-5 items. Tournament games (especially US and Euro) are fast paced and very intense, you'd be lucky if you manage to secure more than 1 Lvl 4 item!

You must be forgetting about Cleaving? Physical Melee & Range AoE damage (Medusa, Juggernaut etc.)? If you want to talk about "Survivability".. Butterfly gives an amazing 30% evasion compared to the measly 8% you get from Radiance which does not even stack!

So here's my argument;

Radiance can be a very solid item on TB, IF you have all the time in the world to farm the other items unnoticed then ride in with your 5 'L33t Imb4' items to solo all 5 and finish it off?!?! Well that wasn't the case as we witnessed in this game yar? TB was basically non-existent!!! Radiance is nothing but a Neutral grinder. After you get a few more damage items? What does it provide you with for all that cash you spent on it? A non-stackable evasion, short AoE burn that doesn't do jack when in Meta form, and +60 damage only on main hero. Lolfactor!

Where as Butter will give you just as good farming potential and you can do some amazing damage when needed to kill/push, plus the weapon scales with the other items you get like EoS, Buriz, 2x butter etc.

If you got the time, there was a video up sometime ago on some DotA forum. Portal or Allstars? I'm guessing. In order to put the famous "Rad vs Butter" argument to rest, they pit 2 players on a 1v1 MM. TB with Radiance/EoS (RE) vs TB with Butter/EoS (BE) + 2 conjured images for each.

(RE) farmed faster, but after a few minutes when (BE) finished off (RE) 1v1 even faster it wasn't even funny.

Anyways my lunch break is over so got to run off plus I've got nothing else to say on this topic.

I would like to wish T0X1C & G|hut good luck for tonight. Will be awaiting the replays. Btw anyone know what has happened to Mumble and His reviews?

Cheers,
F

Mumble is nowhere to be seen it seems? BTW Dota-critic u play on ggc? do i know u?

Ok u have made ur mind up that butter is better than rad. so no point arguing anymore. all the best farming ur 6000 gold for butter. (that is if u plan on rushing butter first)

ya 6.52e is indeed fast paced and intense with no turtling wat so ever 

Mumble is takin part in a royal-thomian regatta. Reviews will be posted next month or so. Btw i support the butterfly>radiance theory